From the ‘No $hit’ Department

IceRatz16 wrote:

It truly amazes me how much criticism McCarthy faces with our fans (go to other boards and you’ll see the animosity and disdain on steroids compared to in here).

KO’s comment about “10 games in three years” did not land well with me. I’m a believer in KO and a supporter, but it sure seems he’s feeding the narratives to the media jackals more and more, rather than protecting his key assets.

I’m with Jason and it would irk me if we dropped McCarthy and an organization scoops him up and he becomes the player we have been longing for, but frankly, I almost feel like that is what our base deserves, contrary to what some believe we deserve.

The longer this goes on, you can see the frustration in KOC answering hard questions about this from the media. He's irritated. I'm not sure how he thought this was going to go? Like I said, and I'll give credit to Supa again, it sure looks like Kevin is covering his ass here now. 10 games in 3 years.....so we keep kicking that can down the road? How does that make sense? What makes sense to me is they don't see JJM as viable.

With all of this now, it sure as hell looks like the organization is going to move on from McCarthy almost definitively.

StickierBuns wrote:

https://x.com/spardisjx/status/2084655729101676860

Umm, no. We drafted him. He hasn't taken the job yet, but still has potential. No way we trade a cheap talented QB who is under contract for 2 or 3 more years.

IceRatz16 wrote:

It truly amazes me how much criticism and animosity McCarthy faces with our fans (go to other boards and you’ll see the disdain on steroids compared to in here).

KO’s comment about “10 games in three years” did not land well with me. I’m a believer in KO and a supporter, but it sure seems he’s feeding the narratives to the media jackals more and more, rather than protecting his key assets.

I’m with Jason and it would irk me if we dropped McCarthy and an organization scoops him up and he becomes the player we have been longing for, but frankly, I almost feel like that is what our base deserves, contrary to what some believe we deserve.

Wait...aren't you a JJ guy? Isn't "10 games in 3 years" one of the reasons y'all think it would be foolish to give up on him? One of the reasons he shouldn't be judged too harshly? (And I agree by the way). But isn't that what KOC is saying here?

I mean sometimes it seems like you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to fit JJ in this role as victim.

Fans in general are dumb. I think fans are conflict adverse. They would rather have a bad QB than two QBs that are close enough in talent that there is a controversy.

If you believe that KOC is a QB whisperer, there is no better place for JJM to be than here. It wouldn't be "kind" to trade him to one of the teams that kills QBs careers. He's not going to avoid the criticism by moving to another team. Kylers certainly not avoiding criticism after he moved here. The only way to avoid criticism is by playing good. If JJM plays well in preseason, that's the quickest path to alleviating criticism. Also fans don't like weird. They don't like mayo boy, they don't like Williams painting his nails, they don't like Aaron Rodgers doing drugs in the jungle, they don't like the 9 alter ego. That ship has sailed.

Kwesi and KOC wanted to get out from under Cousins contract because they believed drafting a QB would give them the cap space to build a championship team around him. KOC wanted Maye. Kwesi couldn't get him. So they had to settle on drafting a leftover. They were so commited to the young QB rebuild they let one of the most accurate longball throwers in the league, in Darnold, walk in favor of their ideal of building a team around a low cost QB. They were so blind they couldn't see they had the QB they needed and a good enough team, for the most part, right in their hands. Who wouldn't sign Darnold and keep JJ as a backup or future trade asset if they could turn back the clock?

Can't change the past and the future looks bright. Average QB play will have this team contending for the NFCN championship. Above average play will take them even farther. I expect that to happen, providing the defense continues to play as they have in the past.

Regarding KOCs Kirk Cousins comment, I think that's doing him dirty. The vikings had no intention of offering either Cousins or Darnold a market competitive offer. The organizational plan was to build around a rookie QB. Its not like Cousins just left and then they decided to start looking for a QB in the draft. It was widely reported that the plan was in the works and that they were targeting that year because of all the QBs available that year.

I think the real issue is that KOC has in his head a perfect offense, if only there was a QB that could execute it the way he envisioned, but no one could and they are all gone now. I just don't believe that KAM could force his hand, because the team favored KOC more than KAM at every step in the process. If he wanted Darnold, he could just go to the top and say, I NEED Darnold and it would be done.

I think KOC is learning. I like the words he's saying on what needs to change in his offense. I'm not sure that will end up what happens on the field.

I'm really really curious on what happens to Murray. Do we put in a Murray friendly scheme that plays to his strengths and weaknesses or do we force him to play the same scheme we've seen the last couple years.

MaroonBells wrote:

Wait...aren't you a JJ guy? Isn't "10 games in 3 years" one of the reasons y'all think it would be foolish to give up on him? One of the reasons he shouldn't be judged too harshly? (And I agree by the way). But isn't that what KOC is saying here?
I mean sometimes it seems like you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to fit JJ in this role as victim.

Maybe you missed it, but 10 games in 2 years would be the correct statement from the HC. This is year three…it hasn’t started yet, so not sure how you add that to his total. Math was usually a stronger area for me, but I could be wrong on the numbers here…

But I appreciate you checking in on my fandom and trying to provide a zinger as quickly as you could.

StickierBuns wrote:

https://x.com/spardisjx/status/2084655729101676860

Exactly what I've been saying for years now. There is zero evidence, zero, that supports OConnell as some kind of whisperer or great developer of quarterbacks. He's never developed a single quarterback...ever!

I just get annoyed with the amount of leeway and undeserved credit being given to a guy who's never won anything and shows clear deficiencies in playcalling and scheme mamagement. I mean, the media fawns over him like he's Bill Walsh part deux or something. It's crazy. To me, OConnell has as much to prove this year as any player on the roster. It might not be make or break, but if he doesn't notch his first playoff victory this upcoming season, than I don't like his chances

.

greediron wrote:

Umm, no. We drafted him. He hasn't taken the job yet, but still has potential. No way we trade a cheap talented QB who is under contract for 2 or 3 more years.

"talented" - Still waiting to see that. He's basically check down charlie and doesn't get through reads. Doesnt have accuracy at any distance. Was successful in a massively run heavy offense in Michigan where he constantly only faced 1 on 1 coverage due to the line being stacked.

We reached. The run on QBs that year made us reach for JJM. Everyone had the same worries about him going from college to the NFL. And all those worries have been proven right.

SurfnRide wrote:

"talented" - Still waiting to see that. He's basically check down charlie and doesn't get through reads. Doesnt have accuracy at any distance. Was successful in a massively run heavy offense in Michigan where he constantly only faced 1 on 1 coverage due to the line being stacked.
We reached. The run on QBs that year made us reach for JJM. Everyone had the same worries about him going from college to the NFL. And all those worries have been proven right.

greediron wrote:

It means exactly what I think it means.

JJM had the second worse stats for a QB since 2000. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/touchdown/2025/11/24/j-j-mccarthy-is-statistically-the-second-worst-qb-since-2000-quarter-century/87457048007/

You know what we need? Another year of injuries, then a mediocre 4th year (hopium!) and a decent 5th year and then we sign him to a solid contract and then he sucks for the rest of the time he is with the Vikings.

Hard Pass. Draft another QB next year. Eventually someone will stick.

IceRatz16 wrote:

Maybe you missed it, but 10 games in 2 years would be the correct statement from the HC. This is year three…it hasn’t started yet, so not sure how you add that to his total. Math was usually a stronger area for me, but I could be wrong on the numbers here…

But I appreciate you checking in on my fandom and trying to provide a zinger as quickly as you could.

Yes, 10 games in two years is more accurate. I think he just meant that this is JJ's 3rd season. I don't think he meant anything bad by it. He said that JJ looked great his first training camp, that he was terrific in the Raiders game, and then had the big knee injury, followed by three more injuries, limiting his development, which is 100% true. It's weird that you think it was a slam on JJ.

I mean, you can't say on one hand that it would be foolish to give up on JJ after only 10 starts, which I agree with, then consider it a slam on the kid when the coach says he's had only 10 starts. He's defending the kid.

It's even weirder that you think my comment was some kind of zinger to you.

I think even beyond KOC trying to save his ass with Murray and control the narrative, this smells a lot of owner interference. The constant "competitive rebuild" drum beating in the building since 2005 has passed on from GM to coaching changes, and the Wilfs remain the constant.

The real problem here is the Vikings have been the very definition of insanity. They continue to do the same thing over and over again. From Farve, Bradford, Cousins, and now Murray. Bring in some veteran to "SAVE" the Vikings team that is ready to pop and get to the Super Bowl.

The right choice was always to let McCarthy sink or swim this season. If he failed you were in prime position to draft the next possible franchise QB. Unfortunately we did what we always do. We brought in another "savior" who will most likely do well enough to keep us from being in prime drafting spot for the next line of QB's, but not good enough to win a Super Bowl, and in the meantime destroy the confidence and usability of the last possible franchise QB.

IceRatz16 wrote:

Maybe you missed it, but 10 games in 2 years would be the correct statement from the HC. This is year three…it hasn’t started yet, so not sure how you add that to his total. Math was usually a stronger area for me, but I could be wrong on the numbers here…

But I appreciate you checking in on my fandom and trying to provide a zinger as quickly as you could.

Don't even get me started with a couple.

MaroonBells wrote:

Wait...aren't you a JJ guy? Isn't "10 games in 3 years" one of the reasons y'all think it would be foolish to give up on him? One of the reasons he shouldn't be judged too harshly? (And I agree by the way). But isn't that what KOC is saying here?
I mean sometimes it seems like you guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels to fit JJ in this role as victim.

SurfnRide wrote:

It means exactly what I think it means.

JJM had the second worse stats for a QB since 2000. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/touchdown/2025/11/24/j-j-mccarthy-is-statistically-the-second-worst-qb-since-2000-quarter-century/87457048007/

You know what we need? Another year of injuries, then a mediocre 4th year (hopium!) and a decent 5th year and then we sign him to a solid contract and then he sucks for the rest of the time he is with the Vikings.
Hard Pass. Draft another QB next year. Eventually someone will stick.

proven: established beyond doubt

Not quite the same as speculation and pessimism

SurfnRide wrote:

It means exactly what I think it means.

JJM had the second worse stats for a QB since 2000. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/touchdown/2025/11/24/j-j-mccarthy-is-statistically-the-second-worst-qb-since-2000-quarter-century/87457048007/

You know what we need? Another year of injuries, then a mediocre 4th year (hopium!) and a decent 5th year and then we sign him to a solid contract and then he sucks for the rest of the time he is with the Vikings.
Hard Pass. Draft another QB next year. Eventually someone will stick.

I think those stats are stupid.

The reason I think those stats are stupid is because QBs usually look bad their first X number of games and then get better (to whatever level they settle in at).

This set of stats, if I’m understanding correctly, is comparing one players “first X number of games” to everyone else’s full career of numbers which includes those first games, but also includes all the other games where they’ve improved.

There’s no reason to believe that if JJ started this season, that his stats wouldn’t go up just like most QBs do, and at that point, we could compare apples to apples and see where he compares against the rest of the field.

I think it would have been a lot more honest if they would have compared his stats against everyone elses first 10 games worth of starts.

Obviously, he didn’t have a good year, but many other players have had bad first 10 games as well, these stats just don’t let you compare them.

medaille wrote:

I think those stats are stupid.
The reason I think those stats are stupid is because QBs usually look bad their first X number of games and then get better (to whatever level they settle in at).
This set of stats, if I’m understanding correctly, is comparing one players “first X number of games” to everyone else’s full career of numbers which includes those first games, but also includes all the other games where they’ve improved.
There’s no reason to believe that if JJ started this season, that his stats wouldn’t go up just like most QBs do, and at that point, we could compare apples to apples and see where he compares against the rest of the field.
I think it would have been a lot more honest if they would have compared his stats against everyone elses first 10 games worth of starts.
Obviously, he didn’t have a good year, but many other players have had bad first 10 games as well, these stats just don’t let you compare them.

Here is what you requested. 14 games started minimum and he has 10 so.... But 35.6 would be the 5th worst rookie QBR in HISTORY

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-qbr-by-rookie-quarterback-in-nfl-history

He got wins in college playing behind a team that ran the vast majority of the time and he mostly faced 1 on 1 when throwing with a very low amount of passes vs the other QB's in that draft.

None of this adds up to him having great potential. I said this when he was drafted. Vikings reached after the QB run.

Lets also add to the no $hit department...the defense looked far better then the offense in the first padded practice...