From the ‘No $hit’ Department

JustInTime wrote:

https://twitter.com/SKORNorth/status/2084773086067392567

Wentz it is!!!!

JustInTime wrote:

https://twitter.com/SKORNorth/status/2084773086067392567

Good lord, they just put on pads yesterday.

Today was just shells, no Jefferson, No Addison and I think the QB's looked a bit less because of that.

Too early imo to say there wont be clarity...

Vikesrock wrote:

The right choice was always to let McCarthy sink or swim this season. If he failed you were in prime position to draft the next possible franchise QB. Unfortunately we did what we always do. We brought in another "savior" who will most likely do well enough to keep us from being in prime drafting spot for the next line of QB's, but not good enough to win a Super Bowl, and in the meantime destroy the confidence and usability of the last possible franchise QB.

100%

That was ALWAYS the plan under the competitive rebuild and the "quarterback guru" head coach, who signed off on drafting McCarthy and was entrusted with his development, should have been made to see things through and either sink or swim with McCarthy. And like you said, if it turns out to be a complete failure, at least we'd know definitively and likely be in great draft position in a draft projected to be one of the deeper QB talent pools in a long time. Where's the downside there? Instead the coach has been allowed to pivot off that plan and his commitment after 10 games to once again go the "rent a vet" route in trying to save his job! I just really wonder if the Wilfs hadn't botched the Kwesi firing so badly and waiting until post draft to hire the new GM, if we'd be having this same conversation?

Vikesrock wrote:

The right choice was always to let McCarthy sink or swim this season.

After last seasons performance? I agree with MB, you gotta play it differently with a team built to win now vs one just coming off a 4-5 win season.

I sure wouldnt want to be the guy telling that locker room (that rattled off 5 wins in a row) we're rolling with JJ again to start with. Very different conversation though if circumstances dictate he comes off the bench this season.

Lets roll on and see what happens...Fingers crossed!!

purplefaithful wrote:

Good lord, they just put on pads yesterday.
Today was just shells, no Jefferson, No Addison and I think the QB's looked a bit less because of that.
Too early imo to say there wont be clarity...

I think guys might be looking ahead to Wednesday too.

I think all of us are missing the big picture. We are Viking fans.....

We do NOT get nice things! The most likely scenario for any decision for JJ will almost for sure be the opposite of what we, as Viking Fans, would want. If we keep JJ as either #1 or #2, when he gets the chance, it will not look good. On the other hand, if we trade him away, he will most assuredly win the Super bowl within the next 1-2 years.

It is what it is as a Viking fan!

purplefaithful wrote:

After last seasons performance? I agree with MB, you gotta play it differently with a team built to win now vs one just coming off a 4-5 win season.
I sure wouldnt want to be the guy telling that locker room (that rattled off 5 wins in a row) we're rolling with JJ again to start with. Very different conversation though if circumstances dictate he comes off the bench this season.
Lets roll on and see what happens...Fingers crossed!!

You'd think that would be obvious. But there really does seem to be this belief out there that McCarthy is more important than the Minnesota Vikings.

MaroonBells wrote:

You'd think that would be obvious. But there really does seem to be this belief out there that McCarthy is more important than the Minnesota Vikings.

That's a very misguided view of what is being advocated here. What is really being said is that we are tired of the same schtick over and over again and would like the Vikings to find out if they have a franchise quarterback. Just like many many other teams in the past have done. We would like O'Connell to stop throwing his temper tantrum over what ever and focus on developing a QB that can be the center of a franchise for the next 10 years.

McCarthy is just the guy they drafted to do that. O'Connell and the gang fed us a pile of horseshit about how he can develop a QB and how franchises fail a QB and blah blah blah. And now, after 10 starts in 2 seasons, it's been determined that we should do the same damned thing we have been doing before. It's tired, it's old and many are over it. Try something new. Build something so that before all of us on this board are pushing up daisies we can see an actual Super Bowl victory.

No this is very much about how it is seen as importance of the Minnesota Vikings. McCarthy is the QB drafted to make the transformation and it seems that it is being pissed away because someone's butt is on the hot seat...or might be...But even more so, it has been acknowledged that if McCarthy fails, move on and get a new replacement. 2027 provides a unique opportunity to find a replacement and so timing is essential...

MaroonBells wrote:

You'd think that would be obvious. But there really does seem to be this belief out there that McCarthy is more important than the Minnesota Vikings.

I don’t think anyone really thinks JJM is more important than the Vikings. I think the QB argument is pretty much anti-QB. Half the group looks at JJM and thinks, “He was so bad for 10 games, that he’ll never be good, I wish we still had stable QB play, because Whisperer is going to whisper any non-hopeless QB. It’s just so unfortunate that KOC has had so many utter shit QBs outside of Cousins and Darnold.” and the other half looks at Kyler and thinks, “He was so bad the Cardinals are paying him to go away and would rather join the QB roulette where you’re back to hoping to find your guy, JJM has only had 10 games of experience, whereas Kyler’s had like 5 bad seasons in a row, at least JJM has a chance of improving”

Daniel McRandall wrote:

I think all of us are missing the big picture. We are Viking fans..... We do NOT get nice things! It is what it is as a Viking fan!

So game 1 Murray out for the season. JJM starts game 2 and 3 of our OL get injured. JJM has a lower QBR than he already has at 35.6 and comes in with a 29.8 QBR and we go 8-10. No playoffs but still good enough to get a middling draft pick.

Wash, rinse and repeat. 30+ years and counting

medaille wrote:

I don’t think anyone really thinks JJM is more important than the Vikings. I think the QB argument is pretty much anti-QB. Half the group looks at JJM and thinks, “He was so bad for 10 games, that he’ll never be good, I wish we still had stable QB play, because Whisperer is going to whisper any non-hopeless QB. It’s just so unfortunate that KOC has had so many utter shit QBs outside of Cousins and Darnold.” and the other half looks at Kyler and thinks, “He was so bad the Cardinals are paying him to go away and would rather join the QB roulette where you’re back to hoping to find your guy, JJM has only had 10 games of experience, whereas Kyler’s had like 5 bad seasons in a row, at least JJM has a chance of improving”

I think the arguments and views are more nuanced than that.

For example, I dont believe JJM can't be good based on his first 10 games. But I wouldnt potentially tank 2026 and make him Qb1 vs GB opener.

It's the gray areas that has the fans chasing their tails and arguing the same arguments.

I think we all just need a pre-season game lol - with no injuries!!

MaroonBells wrote:

You'd think that would be obvious. But there really does seem to be this belief out there that McCarthy is more important than the Minnesota Vikings.

We’ve got guys blaming Jefferson for McCarthy’s shortcomings. JJ is the Teflon QB. It would be humorous if it wasn’t so perplexing.

Vikesrock wrote:

That's a very misguided view of what is being advocated here. What is really being said is that we are tired of the same schtick over and over again and would like the Vikings to find out if they have a franchise quarterback. Just like many many other teams in the past have done. We would like O'Connell to stop throwing his temper tantrum over what ever and focus on developing a QB that can be the center of a franchise for the next 10 years.

Temper tantrums? What are you referring to? Yes, ideally, you draft a guy and he becomes your franchise QB for 10 years. Of course that's what we all WANT. I also want my toaster to start printing Swiss bearer bonds tomorrow morning, but I'm not holding my breath. Sometimes you have to face reality, and the sooner you do that the better.

Vikesrock wrote:

McCarthy is just the guy the drafted to do that with. Then O'Connell and the gang fed us a pile of horseshit about how he can develop a QB and how franchises fail a QB and blah blah blah. And now, after 10 starts in 2 seasons, it's been determined that we should do the same damned thing we have been doing before. It's tired, it's old and many are over it. Try something new. Build something so that before all of us on this board are pushing up daisies we can see an actual Super Bowl victory.

Using this logic,  the 49ers should have stuck with Trey Lance a little longer, or the Colts with Richardson, the Titans with Levis, the Bears with Fields, the Cards with Rosen, etc, etc. There comes a time in the development of some young QBs where you come to realize they may not be the guys you thought they were when you drafted them. You don’t know for certain; you could be wrong. Jets were wrong about Darnold, the Browns were wrong about Mayfield. So yes, there is still hope you can develop the kid, and you will try, but with a win-now roster, you’d better make sure you have another option if the kid just doesn’t get there, which is a distinct possibility. This is a big org with a lot of stakeholders and high-priced players. I find it astonishing that there are people who just wanted to “stay the course” after what we saw last year.

Vikesrock wrote:

No this is very much about how it is seen as importance of the Minnesota Vikings. McCarthy is the QB drafted to make the transformation and it seems that it is being pissed away because someone's butt is on the hot seat...or might be...But even more so, it has been acknowledged that if McCarthy fails, move on and get a new replacement. 2027 provides a unique opportunity to find a replacement and so timing is essential...

So that’s it? Throw caution to the wind and let McCarthy sink or swim this year? And if he fails, just grab another chair at the craps table and try again, putting the team back another two, three years?  Tell Justin Jefferson to “just be patient”? No, to hell with that. The Vikings decision to bring in a veteran to compete with JJ was the right decision. We’ll see how it goes. Like all of us, I want nothing more than for JJ to develop into a franchise QB. But I also understand that may not be in the cards.

medaille wrote:

I don’t think anyone really thinks JJM is more important than the Vikings. I think the QB argument is pretty much anti-QB. Half the group looks at JJM and thinks, “He was so bad for 10 games, that he’ll never be good, I wish we still had stable QB play, because Whisperer is going to whisper any non-hopeless QB. It’s just so unfortunate that KOC has had so many utter shit QBs outside of Cousins and Darnold.” and the other half looks at Kyler and thinks, “He was so bad the Cardinals are paying him to go away and would rather join the QB roulette where you’re back to hoping to find your guy, JJM has only had 10 games of experience, whereas Kyler’s had like 5 bad seasons in a row, at least JJM has a chance of improving”

You should be in politics. You've nailed the whole "caricature the other guy's viewpoint, then argue against it" thing.

JustInTime wrote:

We’ve got guys blaming Jefferson for McCarthy’s shortcomings. JJ is the Teflon QB. It would be humorous if it wasn’t so perplexing.

Haven't seen that one. Not saying it didn't happen because I don't read all the QB drama stories, but that seems to be a bit of a reach.

Just putting this right here:

• Justin Fields (Bears): 38 starts

  • Record: 10–28

  • Threw for over 6,600 yards and rushed for over 2,200 yards with Chicago.

• Will Levis (Titans): 21 starts

  • Record: 5–16

  • Showed flashes of a big arm but struggled with turnovers and consistency.

• Anthony Richardson (Colts): 15 starts

  • Record: 8–7

The exception is Lance and low and behold the 49ers seemed to have stumbled on to a different franchise QB which made it easy to let Lance walk away.

Sure, I am willing to admit there is a time to walk away from McCarthy, but after 10 games and a completely missed rookie season?

And yeah, take a chance. Throw caution to the wind. It takes risk to gain reward. The lukewarm comfy blanket is exactly what the Vikings have done...year after year after year. So far we have achieved 2 NFC championship losses since 2005. Maybe...just maybe we should try something else. You bet it's a high profile situation, but I would also like to point out that it's worth taking the shot at finding the right guy.

Vikesrock wrote:
Sure, I am willing to admit there is a time to walk away from McCarthy, but after 10 games and a completely missed rookie season?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not advocating "walking away" from McCarthy. I agree, it's too soon for that. As you say (and I've said many times), he's had only 10 starts and missed his rookie season. There are legitimate reasons to think he can still develop into the guy we want him to be. That's why he's still on the roster and why he's still in the running to be QB1. Bringing in a veteran to compete with him is not "walking away" from JJ.

greediron wrote:

Haven't seen that one. Not saying it didn't happen because I don't read all the QB drama stories, but that seems to be a bit of a reach.

It’s in the Justin Jefferson is good at football thread.

MaroonBells wrote:

Tell Justin Jefferson to “just be patient”? No, to hell with that.

I'm so over people using Jefferson as a reason to continue the "rent-a vet" cycle at quarterback. For what, so he can catch a dozen touchdowns while we don't make the playoffs or get bounced in round one because we lack a franchise quarterback? He is being well compensated for whatever his role and numbers end up being, and here is the bottom line, we've gotten no closer to winning in the playoffs with Jefferson posting elite numbers, so sorry if it hurts his feelings, but this was the direction that the franchise mapped out and its imperative to find out for sure whether McCarthy is that guy or not. There is no way anybody can say one way or the other after a measley, injury riddled 10 game sample.

JustInTime wrote:

It’s in the Justin Jefferson is good at football thread.

Lol. Like I said, seems like a reach.