Why McCarthy-Vikings experiment went south so quickly

MaroonBells wrote:

Any commentary on JJ that doesn't at least acknowledge that he was either hurt for, or hurt in, 29 of 34 games is missing a big part of why he failed here.

Can't make the club in the tub.

MaroonBells wrote:

Any commentary on JJ that doesn't at least acknowledge that he was either hurt for, or hurt in, 29 of 34 games is missing a big part of why he failed here.

Its amazing that every conversation on 9 doesnt lead and end with that piece of data.

Everyone has a narrative and pov to push so I'm not that surprised tbh.

StickierBuns wrote:

So I guess JJ is the first QB to not make it as a first round QB? And raise your hand if you've taken a raw QB like McCarthy, which he was with the run heavy offense at Michigan, and had him be successful. It has to be super rarified air. He also was the 5th QB selected in the Draft, which lowers his odds of success as well. Even Josh Allen, who was also extremely raw coming out, was selected 7th overall and the 3rd QB taken. McCarthy wasn't the cream of the QB crop that year. This wasn't a case where chicken shit was made out of chicken salad by KOC and staff.
It is what it is. So many x-factors and variables happened to poor McCarthy that probably ruined him before he ever really got started which we've all mentioned many times. He's got some really good things in his makeup, but it was not to be in MInnesota. I wish the kid the best, I really do. I rarely if ever root for ex-Vikings when they move to other teams, but I'll be rooting hard for him.

Well said Sticky - you still got that Midwestern sensibility I see...

Just a bit older and tanner now is all.

purplefaithful wrote:

1). Do the Giants have to make a decision on JJM by 5/27 regarding his contract like the Vikings were facing?
2). Will the Gmen hold a QB competition this summer between Dart/JJM in 27?
Dart recovery time is 4-6 mos, so he "should" be ready to go again come OTA's etc..
It's their qb blessing or qb headache now

Afaik they took his contract so the 5th year option is their decision. They like Dart a lot, I think this move is about A) Jameis is not really in great shape and B) he could fit a limited version of their offense on a temp basis til Dart is back next year. And maybe they think they could do better with him in terms of improvement than we did. Don't know.

purplefaithful wrote:

Well said Sticky - you still got that Midwestern sensibility I see...
Just a bit older and tanner now is all.

....and balder! 😂

As to the point on KOC -- I don't see anything here or elsewhere that is absolving him of responsibility for this mess. It's not like KOC lobbied for NIx and KAM picked McCarthy; or KOC wanted to pass on a QB once the "big 3" were gone and KAM drafted one anyway. KOC knew JJM needed time to develop, and he did not give him that time. What we don't know now is whether, given time to develop, JJM would have been the answer. And we may never know, as it is hard for me to imagine that the Giants experience is going to be kind to JJM. KOC has also not been absolved for letting Darnold walk or the lack of insight/judgment that let Danny Dimes walk out the door. No, I think KOC is directly in the crosshairs on this.

I can't help but imagine how different things would have been had Darnold not looked like the "seeing ghosts" guy of old in the season closer against Detroit and then again in the playoffs against the Rams. Most of this board, it certainly seemed, wanted nothing to do with the $$$ and contract length it would have taken to keep Darnold. One would have hoped that the "QB whisperer" would have seen the difference between a guy struggling to operate behind a poor and makeshift offensive line and one who simply did not have the big game poise to be a winner in this league.

PurplePorsche wrote:

As to the point on KOC -- I don't see anything here or elsewhere that is absolving him of responsibility for this mess. It's not like KOC lobbied for NIx and KAM picked McCarthy; or KOC wanted to pass on a QB once the "big 3" were gone and KAM drafted one anyway. KOC knew JJM needed time to develop, and he did not give him that time. What we don't know now is whether, given time to develop, JJM would have been the answer. And we may never know, as it is hard for me to imagine that the Giants experience is going to be kind to JJM. KOC has also not been absolved for letting Darnold walk or the lack of insight/judgment that let Danny Dimes walk out the door. No, I think KOC is directly in the crosshairs on this.

I can't help but imagine how different things would have been had Darnold not looked like the "seeing ghosts" guy of old in the season closer against Detroit and then again in the playoffs against the Rams. Most of this board, it certainly seemed, wanted nothing to do with the $$$ and contract length it would have taken to keep Darnold. One would have hoped that the "QB whisperer" would have seen the difference between a guy struggling to operate behind a poor and makeshift offensive line and one who simply did not have the big game poise to be a winner in this league.

I believe there used to be a GM here who may have had a say in things as well. Imo his QB decisions were the main reason he's gone, besides being a poor team player and bad drafter..

Look, I'm not absolving KOC completely, nor do I think he would absolve himself privately and he hasn't done so publicly.

There is plenty of blame and causal on this.

Maybe most so are the football gods who smite down McCarthy in 29 of his 34 games (tm MB.) Hell, it was damn near biblical.

He's no longer a Viking. Good time to look forward.

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:

He's no longer a Viking. Good time to look forward.

Truth...

The good lord made the windshield bigger than the rear view mirror for a reason 😁

He couldn't beat out Carson Wentz for QB2. All anyone on here needs to know.

Moving on. This isnt hard and this horse has been beaten, tarred and feathered.

Let it die.... I cant wait for no more JJM posts. He's with the Giants! Quit looking in the past

PurplePorsche wrote:

I can't help but imagine how different things would have been had Darnold not looked like the "seeing ghosts" guy of old in the season closer against Detroit and then again in the playoffs against the Rams. Most of this board, it certainly seemed, wanted nothing to do with the $$$ and contract length it would have taken to keep Darnold. One would have hoped that the "QB whisperer" would have seen the difference between a guy struggling to operate behind a poor and makeshift offensive line and one who simply did not have the big game poise to be a winner in this league.

I didn't want Darnold, at least not for that kind of money. He would have been awful behind our 2025 O-line. So yeah, all those now claiming we should have kept him conveniently forgot how bad he looked those last two games.

And as far as Danny Dimes goes, what has he done? They rode Taylor out to a 6-0 start, traded for Sauce and then folded. Danny got hurt somewhere in there, but he was part of the collapse and the 1-2 start.

SurfnRide wrote:

He couldn't beat out Carson Wentz for QB2. All anyone on here needs to know.

Moving on. This isnt hard and this horse has been beaten, tarred and feathered.

Let it die.... I cant wait for no more JJM posts. He's with the Giants! Quit looking in the past

You probably have to wait 2-3 years for that. The only thing that solves it is if Murray is like new rules pro bowler or takes us to a SB or if JJM is ends of the earth bad for the Giants (which probably wouldn't happen as Winston would just keep starting)

You definitely have to wait longer than a day though.

purplefaithful wrote:

Its amazing that every conversation on 9 doesnt lead and end with that piece of data.
Everyone has a narrative and pov to push so I'm not that surprised tbh.

That was huge on why he was not successful here. HIs age and maturity were another.

2 things

1. Ownership and the Organization made too many mistakes in developing a young QB

2. JJ would beat himself way too often

Bad combo-

I said it on draft day two years ago and I'll say it again. We shoulda taken Bo Nix.

He was there, he had many years as a starter in a passing offense (including setting an NCAA record for completion percentage his last season at Oregon). And he already took the Broncos to one playoff.

That's all you need to know, especially now with 20/20 hindsight.

Montana Tom wrote:

I said it on draft day two years ago and I'll say it again. We shoulda taken Bo Nix.
He was there, he had many years as a starter in a passing offense (including setting an NCAA record for completion percentage his last season at Oregon). And he already took the Broncos to one playoff.
That's all you need to know, especially now with 20/20 hindsight.

Maybe...or maybe we should have hired Sean Peyton (barf). Maybe that is the difference...

Montana Tom wrote:

I said it on draft day two years ago and I'll say it again. We shoulda taken Bo Nix.
He was there, he had many years as a starter in a passing offense (including setting an NCAA record for completion percentage his last season at Oregon). And he already took the Broncos to one playoff.
That's all you need to know, especially now with 20/20 hindsight.

The knock on him was that he basically only threw within 5 yards of the LOS. That's basically the same knock as JJM, an offense that was crippled because of his inability to make the throws that KOC's offense required. JJM at least had the physical and leadership attributes.

greediron wrote:

I didn't want Darnold, at least not for that kind of money. He would have been awful behind our 2025 O-line. So yeah, all those now claiming we should have kept him conveniently forgot how bad he looked those last two games.
And as far as Danny Dimes goes, what has he done? They rode Taylor out to a 6-0 start, traded for Sauce and then folded. Danny got hurt somewhere in there, but he was part of the collapse and the 1-2 start.

It's not revisionist history or fans claiming they were "right"... it's evaluating the decisions of the Vikings organization in hindsight. Did they make the right call or not? They see these guys every day in practice, games, etc. and should have the most information to make the right decision.

Fans have all kinds of opinions based on limited information and yes, most fans wanted us to move on from Darnold after he shit the bed against the Lions and Rams. We were wrong and the Vikings were wrong to let Darnold walk and go with JJ McCarthy before he was ready to start.

If we had kept Darnold, he's probably still starting and JJ McCarthy probably has way more trade value since he's a top 10 pick behind a good NFL QB and teams would be itching to get their hands on him. Instead, we saw the injuries, immaturity, and inconsistency on full display last season and this off-season and had to bring in a cheap, talented but flawed QB who may or may not be a fit for this offense and traded that former top 10 QB pick for a 5th rounder.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

It's not revisionist history or fans claiming they were "right"... it's evaluating the decisions of the Vikings organization in hindsight. Did they make the right call or not? They see these guys every day in practice, games, etc. and should have the most information to make the right decision.
Fans have all kinds of opinions based on limited information and yes, most fans wanted us to move on from Darnold after he shit the bed against the Lions and Rams. We were wrong and the Vikings were wrong to let Darnold walk and go with JJ McCarthy before he was ready to start.
If we had kept Darnold, he's probably still starting and JJ McCarthy probably has way more trade value since he's a top 10 pick behind a good NFL QB and teams would be itching to get their hands on him. Instead, we saw the injuries, immaturity, and inconsistency on full display last season and this off-season and had to bring in a cheap, talented but flawed QB who may or may not be a fit for this offense and traded that former top 10 QB pick for a 5th rounder.

Well, they hadn't seen any of that before they "let Darnold walk" when he signed elsewhere for 3 years/100 mil. JJ was injured that season, so they saw pretty much what we saw, the preseason game.

Letting Jones walk was probably the bigger mistake. But again, he signed elsewhere. Not like they didn't try to keep him, but he didn't want to be a bridge for a 1st round rookie.

Not signing Wentz in the offseason was probably a bigger mistake but they had their vet backup that they ended up cutting or trading after the preseason.

And Darnold would have been living a cheap horror flick with all the ghosts he would have seen behind Skule Brandel, Jergens, Fries and Rouse. How would that 100 mil have looked with that?

If the statement about not signing Rodgers out of fear of a trade request from the JJM camp is true, that is weak leadership/ decision making in my opinion. You have to be willing to make hard decisions that are in the best interests of the whole team.

I am not saying it would have worked out perfectly last year with Rodgers, especially with our O Line injuries and inconsistency. Plus I am not a fan of all the Rodgers drama and diva behavior sometimes, but to not make the decision out of fear of a trade request from another player who is still under contract seems a bit lame to me.